Greg Wilkes: 0:42
On today’s podcast, I’m talking to Danielle Bell. Danielle is a great coach and property expert, and I’ve known her for a few years. She’s got her own property portfolio, and if you’ve ever considered getting into property yourself as a construction expert, then you’re going to find this really useful. We’re going to be looking at some of the top tips to ensure that you can make a successful career of property portfolios. Also, we are going to be looking at some of the mistakes that a lot of people make that you can avoid. We’ll be diving into the different types of property deals that you could potentially be doing, so you can decide what route suits you. I hope you get tremendous value from the podcast. Let’s jump in. So, Danielle, awesome to have you on the podcast. I really appreciate you joining us today.
Danielle Bell: 1:28
Thank you so much, Greg. Loving it.
Greg Wilkes: 1:30
Great for you to be here. I know I really wanted to get you on and we’ve been in contact for a while now in the same coaching community. The reason I wanted you on is because I often talk to so many of my clients and builders that are out there, and for most builders their dream is to get into property at some point. They’ve got the skillset to do it, and we see all these programs with everyone doing it. I think as a builder, sometimes you watch these programs like ‘Homes Under the Hammer’ and all those sort of programs, and you think, “I can do this, I can really do this, I can flip these properties or do this and that.” It’s an aim that most have. I think it’s going to be awesome just to talk to you today about some of the things and challenges that people have when they’re trying to build a property portfolio and see what sort of tips we can get over the show .
Danielle Bell: 2:17
Absolutely, brilliant – lets go!
Greg Wilkes: 2:18
Good stuff. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Danielle . How did you get into it? What do you do?
Danielle Bell: 2:23
Ok! So for anyone that’s listening to the podcast, my name’s Danielle Bell. I’m a full-time property investor now and also I’m the founder of ‘Property Sources Made Simple’ which I am claiming as the number one coaching program for property sources in the UK. Hands down . Wasn’t always that way though, Greg, because I come from a financial analysis background, corporate world, it is the cliche story. Corporate girl stuck in the rat race. Worked for the New York Stock Exchange, which when you wrap that up, looks very glamorous, looks super sexy – It was anything but. I was traveling between Belfast, London, Amsterdam, and New York on a weekly basis. We were doing London, then we would do London to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to New York. That was just a loop . Consistently hated everything about it. I really wanted to start a family and that doesn’t quite happen when you’re in two different continents. So I made that decision to leave the corporate world, fell pregnant, fell into property sourcing . It’s really important that I point out Greg, because I think it’s easy to look at something from when you’ve been doing business for a while, I think people can look in and only see the tip of the iceberg and they usually never see what’s going on underneath the surface. It was always a huge dream of mine and my husband’s to get into build a property portfolio. It’s what we knew from our families, it was just kind of what we grew up around separately. But 2008 rocked my parents’ world, in that they lost pretty much everything.
Greg Wilkes: 4:07
Wow.
Danielle Bell: 4:08
Yes… For us it was a case of taking a lot of lessons from 2007/ 2008 and everything that went on thereafter. We had some money set aside to start our first ‘buy to let’, and that was really due to kick off the portfolio while we were working full-time. Very long-story-short, we went through IVF to have our sons . For anybody listen to the podcast will be very aware, IVF is not a cheap process. It is incredibly expensive. That put all our plans to ****
Greg Wilkes: 4:42
That’s your deposit on the ‘buy to let’ gone <laugh>
Danielle Bell: 4:46
Gone! And some, right? It was a crazy journey and I’m very blessed. But when you’ve asked me to say, how did I get started? What’s the background? Look, I was not born with cash to put into this. We weren’t given a leg up. When I really wanted to make a go of this, I was on maternity leave and it was a perfect opportunity to have that little bit of time, that little bit of breathing space. I started to look at things in property that I could capitalise on without having the cash. That’s where property sourcing came into play. And again, for the listeners of your podcast, if you’re not familiar with what property sourcing or property trading is, it’s essentially the art of sourcing good investment deals on behalf of investors, putting it in front of them and they will pay you a fee for going and finding these particular deals. It’s a lucrative strategy, but it’s not get rich quick and that’s totted all over social media (the word) ‘Lucrative’ but you need to be super good at what you do. [Interruption] Sorry, go ahead.
Greg Wilkes: 5:56
(I was just going to say) that’s interesting starting with the sourcing. I guess that is good for some who may want to get into having the property portfolio themselves, but might want to take that baby step before they actually do that. I guess sourcing is that initial step, is it, to get into the world and start finding the deals?
Danielle Bell: 6:16
Greg, fundamentally across the board in property, irrespective of what stage you now find yourself at , the ability to be able to source property is the fundamental across the board. I am very thankful, if I look back seven years ago, yes I wanted to get off the starting block and I wanted to get in and I wanted to own property. That’s what I wanted. I didn’t have any money. So I thought “Right, throw myself into sourcing here”. I am eternally grateful because I learnt a very valuable skillset set (I sound like a Liam Neeson here!) But I had a very valuable s kill s et in the ability to have that knowledge of seeking out, of sniffing out what does a good deal look like. Not only that, learning how to d eal with the estate agents, how to negotiate, how to conduct myself in front of investors, how to make myself lend worthy, creditworthy, trustworthy, which was really important a s my journey progressed because I’ve used investor c ash to build my own portfolio over the last seven years. So, i s sourcing valuable? A hundred percent. And it doesn’t matter what stage of the game t hat you’re at in property, in my mind it is the number one s killset that you need to have.
Greg Wilkes: 7:33
Yes. A hundred percent agree with that. It’s going to be a skill that’s going to last you all the way through your journey that you’ll keep having to return to. I can concur with that completely. So, you started off sourcing initially and then eventually you were able to start buying your own properties…What sort of route did you go down with your property portfolio? Are you flipping or buy to let or something else?
Danielle Bell: 7:58
At the stage of route now Greg , it’s eclectic. I am (and it’s not sexy, but it’s safe) I’m a Buy to Let girl through and through . It’s set , forget, move on. I have a very cookie cutter approach to that line . I’m not looking for something that gives me an extra job. I am looking for something that I can offload, whether it’s to letting agent, to a managing agent, to the estate agent. We looked at Buy to Lets when we built up quite a substantial portfolio of Bye to Let properties. But in along the way, we enjoyed the occasional flip . If I’m very honest, we were seeking out flips to really top up the capital and to replenish a little bit of money, put some money back in the account. We generally will look to do two flips a year.
Greg Wilkes: 8:51
Okay.
Danielle Bell: 8:51
But I try and keep as many of the properties that we acquire, I try to add them to our portfolio. Within the last year we have branched into commercial to residential development. Completely new ballgame . I am very much learning on the job. Massive step from buy to lets into commercial development. I did not plan Greg. I had no idea just how long some of these things take….
Greg Wilkes: 9:27
That’s a tough industry because it’s highly lucrative, but they’re hard to source , aren’t they? Those sort of deals, those commercial ones…
Danielle Bell: 9:33
Yeah I’m pretty good at [Laugh] The reality is that we bought two next door to each other in the same week. Pure fluke or skill, depends on how you look at it! But one was on market with the agent that it was just pure negotiation tactics, but it was also knowing the area. I think that’s really important. The ability to spot the areas that are going to perform well. Then we bought the one next door pre auction, just so happened that they were up the same week and we got in. It’s an area of massive regeneration in Belfast. There’s a lot of money being pumped in by the local councils. We thought let’s capitalise now. One of them is still in planning a year later. The other one we have fully converted with into three flats. I’m keeping one, we’ve sold two. But I thought naively we’d be in an out in four months. It took a year. <laugh>. But to answer your question, because I know I’ve gone on in a very roundabout way there, when I started sourcing Greg, I sourced the types of properties that I wanted to add to my portfolio, which was all day long ‘Bye to Let, Two up , two down mid terrace .’ That’s what I know. That’s what I love. And that’s much the road forward.
Greg Wilkes: 11:00
I think that’s a great tip on for people here, where they are going to start, is they should be doing something they know. If you’re listening to this and you want to to get into property, don’t start looking at Commercial Buy to Lets. If you’ve got no experience in that area at all, maybe you do need to be looking at something nice and straightforward like a two up two down terrace .
Danielle Bell: 11:20
Yes. But that’s thing , you have to cut your teeth. I think one of the things that we’re guilty of in the property industry, is the shiny penny syndrome. Property is toughted as the asset class of the wealth – which it is . But you have to be able to walk before you can run. We don’t come off the starting blocks. You have a portfolio yourself as well, Greg, you didn’t come off the starting blocks and go straight into development. It’s a steady process. The problem II feel that we have is that certainly properly education as a whole toughts it as a Get Rich Quick Scheme. It’s anything but.
Greg Wilkes: 11:58
Oh definitely, yes.
Danielle Bell: 11:59
The rewards are worth it if you’re prepared to put in the effort.
Greg Wilkes: 12:04
A hundred percent. That’s right. So it’s interesting, you’re building up your portfolio and obviously you’re doing that for a reason, financial security and thinking of your future. I always ask this question because I read ‘The Times’ a lot and there’s a little fortune article that they put in there and they always ask this question to the people who a re the millionaires n ow, t hey say “Pensions versus Property. What would you go for?” So I probably know your answer to this, Danielle, what would you say in that regard?
Danielle Bell: 12:35
I am old school Greg, in that I like to be able to see, touch, feel, smell my tangible assets. It’s all I’ve ever known growing up. My parents, that’s what they were doing for us, that building up of property which disappeared in 2007/2008. But it’s all I’ve ever known. What I can tell you is that now, being at the age of the mat , having the life experiences that I’ve had, building the businesses that we’ve built, I will choose property time and time again for one reason and one reason only: Leverage. The ability to be able to leverage the bank’s money, the ability to be able to leverage the funding of private agent investors, which I have done time and time and time again. It almost guarantees me the ability to be able to blow a pension out of the water by putting that skillset to use. I also accept and understand that pensions have pros over property. I know that the pensions are , it’s a much more liquid environment. If we needed to to cash in tomorrow, it’s probably not going to be the proper property asset that we’re going to choose. It’s likely going to be the pension. But for me, above all else, I’m going to choose property over pension because of the ability to be able to leverage.
Greg Wilkes: 14:00
That’s a great answer. Thanks for that. That’s brilliant. I want to talk a little bit about (the audience that are listening to this generally should be construction business owners, builders) Why do you think builders – obviously you coach a lot of people – but why do you think builders are in a prime position to really start thinking about starting property portfolios?
Danielle Bell: 14:22
I can’t understand why they wouldn’t. That’s the truth, Greg. I’ve spoken to many people in the building trade over the years, and it’s that same thing that you and I conversation you and I had before we clicked record here of (construction owners are thinking) “I’d love to do that” And they’re looking at maybe somebody with much less experience than them and thinking, “I could totally do what they’re doing.” I firmly believe that builders are in a prime position to be able to start building a property portfolio because they have experience that the newcomer just doesn’t have. They have the ability to be able to go out and spot the undervalued properties. They have the literal boots on the ground . They’re in a position to perhaps stumble across discounted properties. On top of that, on securing these properties, they have the skillset to be able to renovate. They have the skillset , the contacts, the trades to be able to add significant value. Increasing the uplift on the property, increasing the rental demand. For me it’s a no-brainer. If I was a builder and that was my sole line of work, but I had an itch to scratch with property, I would be putting every last ounce of the experience that I have into partnering up with someone who can bring me the cash, while you bring the deals and the refurb work.
Greg Wilkes: 15:44
It is a no brainer, you’re right. I’m glad you said that because sometimes cash is generally the barrier, but if you’ve got the deal and you’ve got the experience, the cash is probably the reasonably easy bit to get. For people with cash, they’re desperate for the deal and someone with the experience, aren’t they?
Danielle Bell: 16:05
I’ll give you a prime example of that, Greg. On our most recent commercial to residential development, we actually partnered up with our builder. He had the skillset , he had the team, he had the knowledge, he had the experience. It was our first commercial to residential development. I can look at a two up , two down properties all day long and tell you what we need to do with it. But knocking down walls and (****) taking off roofs and all this, like this was not my forte. We partnered with him and I sought him out. I chased him because I recognised the value that he could bring to that project for me. He was worth his weight in gold. I pursued him in on that deal and I’m eternally grateful for it. He’s back in the next one (project) as well. We’re working out the logistics of he keeps one, I keep on, we sell one. I think that’s a great question to ask. I also think it’s really important. I think when you’re in it, when you’re in the job, you’re not very quick to recognise the skillset that you bring or the value that you bring. As a property investor, I can hands down tell your audience that I crave the skillsets that they have. And as an investor, I will pay good money to get those relationships, to forge those developments moving forward. If you’re a builder considering moving into investment, you simply have to rip the plaster off because people want what you’ve got to offer.
Greg Wilkes: 17:40
Yes, that’s really good to hear. I think there’s going to be plenty listening to this that are interested in that . It’s funny actually because when I bring people into my program, we often talk about what future they want. And I’m not joking, it must be 90% of people that come and work for me say their end goal is to get into property development and start doing properties. It’s literally that many, and I don’t know whether that’s just because they’re attracted to my coaching program because I did that journey or if we’ve got the same personalities where we can see the value in it, but it’s definitely of interest. I know that it’s probably 90% of those listen to this podcast that are thinking, “Oh, I’d love to do it, but am I good enough and who’s going to want partner with me?” I think it’s quite heartening to hear what you’ve said there that there’s people desperate to partner with them if they’ve got the skills and the ability to find the deals
Danielle Bell: 18:28
Look, it all boils down to credibility and experience. I don’t think most people, as human nature, we’re not very good at self reflecting on what we’re very good at. We’re not very good at openly admitting the skillsets that we have as an investor. I’m speaking from an an investor perspective now. I’m looking for somebody with credibility. I’m looking with for someone who can demonstrate their experience. I’m looking for somebody whose values aligned with mine genuinely. And again, I think this podcast interview is very timely, Greg, purely because I’ve just come off the back of a joint venture with my builder. I could not have done that project without h im. So people need what builders have to offer, period.
Greg Wilkes: 19:17
Brilliant. I’m sure he’s saying the same! And now you’ve set him up with a fantastic future for property development . So that’s, it’s a win for both, isn’t it?
Danielle Bell: 19:25
For sure .
Greg Wilkes: 19:25
That’s great for running through that. What I’d be really interested in picking your brains on, is what the biggest mistakes are that people generally make when they first try and get into building properties? You’ve probably s een some horror stories of it all g oing wrong for people. What do you think the big mistakes are?
Danielle Bell: 19:41
Single biggest killer Greg: shiny penny syndrome. The grass is greener. Right. Getting off the starting blocks and going into land development when you couldn’t tell a Buy to Let from the moom! That’s genuinely, I think again, it boils down to human nature. We are always looking at what somebody else is doing. I think social media has a lot to blame for this because social media is typically only ever showing you what [inaudible] hot right now and how well everybody’s doing. “Oh look, we’re on the 10th holiday this year.” It’s incredibly frustrating and I think it that plays a large part. Also people just don’t have the focus. They come out and of the gates and they think that, “Oh, this guy had an ad up saying I could earn 10 grand a month in the next four weeks. Right. Okay, I’ll give that a go. Okay, so that’s not working. Well, I saw this ad and this guy said that if I do service accommodation, I make 20 grand a month.” So shiny penny syndrome, not goal setting . Sounds very cliche, sounds very “woohoo” mindset, personal development. I’m a massive fan of setting goals. Massive. And also finding out, what’s the “Why”. I can very openly and honestly say to you, I chose property development b ecause I wanted to b uild l ong t erm wealth for m y family, but I also wanted to put ourselves in a position where we could travel very freely. That’s a big thing for us. So that’s a goal for me. We s et down where we’d like to go throughout the year, how we’d l ike to go there, what we’d like to do, a nd when we’re there, that’s what drives me forward. Most people don’t think l ong t erm, they’re thinking q uick b uck. So the biggest mistakes, shiny p enny syndrome, not putting the blinkers o n, not staying in their own lane and, and not seeking out help. So you and I, b ecause we both r un coaching programs, w ill know the value of a mentor. I can’t speak for you Greg, but I know at the start of my property journey I resisted getting help largely because a t the time I couldn’t afford it, but I resisted getting help from someone who w as further along the journey than me. As a result, I made some mistakes that as yet I have not recovered from. I think people are, are not quick enough to ask for help.
Greg Wilkes: 22:17
Yes. I’ll definitely agree with that. I think we’ve all made mistakes by not seeking out help sometimes and sometimes you just want to fast track things, don’t you? And why take years of making mistakes and finally working it out, if someone’s been there and done it and you can get there a lot faster. I’m a big believer in that. It’s so interesting what you said about the shiny penny syndrome, because I know especially with property, with all these algorithms that you’ve got on Facebook now, you’ve only got to click on one Ad and all of a sudden Facebook’s got you, and for the next two years you’re shown every single property guru that’s out there. It’s probably quite frustrating for you in the industry when you know you’ve got a great product and I think what some people worry about is unfortunately there are a few charlatan’s out there too, isn’t there, that won’t be offering the right sort of programs.
Danielle Bell: 23:02
Yes, the property industry and for reputable coaches like you and I, Greg, it does us a great disservice because I feel that you have to almost gain the trust tenfold, because I see so many ads pop up in my own algorithm of people who I know have maybe six months experience behind them because at one point in time they came to me for mentorship. It is definitely an industry littered with sharks and you do have to be very careful with who you put your trust in and who you part with your money to. What I’d say is, you don’t always have to get off the blocks and go straight into a super expensive mentorship program. Listening to podcasts, reading the books, watching the YouTube channels, getting yourself to network and events. I’m a big, big, big fan on recommendation. I always feel that if somebody comes through to me, one of the first questions I always ask someone is “Ken, how did you end up at my door? How did that happen?” I get a lot of, “Well actually I spoke to Lorraine and she was on your program six months ago.” I would much rather have that type of referral system around me. I think it’s super important. You don’t need to get off the blocks and dive in with expensive paid for education, but you do have to try and educate yourself in some form or another
Greg Wilkes: 24:31
A hundred percent . Yes, because there’s so many unknowns with property, you’ve got the finance side, you’ve got what could happen with the market in general with dealing with the estate agents ? There’s so many bases that you’ve got to touch and cover that you probably haven’t dealt with before. I can see the value in that. So you talked about some of the mistakes that people make. If you were going to give someone maybe two, three tips….If they said “Look, Danielle, this is it, my mind’s on it. I’m going to keep the blinkers on and go for it now. What’s the first steps I should take to set myself up for success?” What do you think people should be doing?
Danielle Bell: 25:07
I think that you need to get your networking game strong, right? That’s genuinely, when I reflect back on maybe how I managed to progress progress quite as quickly as what I did. I think it boiled down to putting a very firm network in place. Being able to (and it’s cliche Greg,) to say that your network is your net worth. It is completely cliche, but I will stand by it. I believe that the company we keep is the currency we never speak about. I would definitely start putting myself out in very choice networking events, mingling with people who are doing the things that you want to do. Also, it’s okay to be an amateur and I think so many people want to put this cloak on or this facade of push the shoulders back that “Oh, I’ve been there and I’ve done that” and they really haven’t. It is very endearing to be a raving amateur. What I mean by that is , ask lots of questions, put yourself out there, speak to people. Tell them that you’re new to this, tell them that you’re very keen . Tell them what your ideal plans are and what advice that they could give you moving forward. Networking has got to be one. I think the second one is to make a three or five year plan, right? Your not going to jump out of this straight off the gates tomorrow and be a multimillionaire. It’s just not going to happen. Sorry to break that news, but ask yourself, are we doing this for some residual income? Is it for Christmas? Is it for the occasional holiday? Or are we doing this to make it our lifestyle? And for some people they do just want some hobby money. That’s fine. Initially, that’s what sourcing was to me. For me, sourcing at the start, my intention was only ever to earn some additional income that would pay for a holiday or a trip. But then I got the bug and it kind of snowballed from there. Putting some plans in place, figuring out do we want this long term or am I just doing this to supplement my income network, network like a crazy person. I guess the third thing would be, to find somebody in that niche who is walking that walk who has done what you want to do and reaching out and asking them for help.
Greg Wilkes: 27:29
Yes, I think that’s some great advice there. You mentioned earlier that your preference is obviously Buy to Lets, that’s your bread and butter that you love doing, but there’s so much more out there, isn’t there? Can you give us (without going into too much detail) but someone listening here might not know anything about Buy to Lets, and maybe flipping , but what other options are there in property that people could start considering as a beginner?
Danielle Bell: 27:53
Right. As a beginner I do firmly, firmly rate sourcing. That’s the beginner strategy, that art of going out, finding what a good deal looks like, marking it up with an investor and the long-term benefits of that. For me Greg, it meant that I was able to call upon finance as and when I need it. You will hear it said in properly , if the deal is good enough, the money will come. I don’t believe that. Not when you are new, not when you are just earning your stripes, not when you are just cutting your teeth. I’m in a blessed position now because I’m doing the seven years that if a deal fell on my lap tomorrow and I didn’t have the funds in my bank account, I’m very, very confident that I can source those funds no problem. That took seven years. It’s not a case of if the deal is good enough, the money will follow. But sourcing gives you that great initial foundational skillset set . We’ve also got terms like rent to rent. I don’t know if your audience will be familiar with that, but it’s basically taking a property that’s up for rent, taking it off the landlord’s hands (usually at a discounted rate) for a guaranteed longer term and then subletting it, usually for serviced accommodation, Airbnb, Booking.com. I also did some of that in my earlier days, again as a cash flow boost . I used quite a few of my own buy properties as service accommodation properties, again for boosted cash flow .
Greg Wilkes: 29:27
Just on that one, Danielle, who would be responsible for doing up that property to get the higher valuation on the rental?
Danielle Bell: 29:35
Yes, that will firmly fall on you as the property manager. You are essentially guaranteeing the landlord a complete hands free service. I’m coming into you Greg. I’m saying “Greg, I really like this property. Listen, how about I take it off your hands for the next three years? I will guarantee you a thousand pounds a month for it. You won’t hear from me for three years.” I’m going commend Greg, I’m going to cosmetically tart the place up and I’m going to rent it out at a premium. The difference I get to keep, again, very lucrative. If you’re coming into property with little to no capital, it is an attractive model to run with. However, and I caveat this with ‘however,’ as we move forward, you do need to have some form of education around it. You can’t do this blind. Seek out the experts that offer that type of coaching. Look at those YouTube channels, look at those podcasts. But it is a lucrative model. If you perhaps are in a fortunate position to have some investment properties, look at how you can creatively increase your cashflow . Service accommodation, Greg is huge. It’s huge. COVID stopped that in its tracks for all of us. I mean I had 9, 10, 11 HMO rooms empty overnight.
Greg Wilkes: 31:08
Just to explain what HMOs are for those that don’t know…
Danielle Bell: 31:12
Yes my fault! I’m in the zone! HMO stands for House of Multiple Occupation and typically speaking, it is a larger property, typically four plus rooms. We’ve just bought an 11 bed HMO a few weeks ago. It’ll house young professionals, single rooms let out under one house. HMOs are very popular in and around areas where universities are close by for students. The one that we’ve just purchased has Queens University on its doorstep, but it’s also got Belfast City Hospital and Belfast Royal Victoria Hospital within Stones throw, so a great location. However, I had one there during Covid as well. We had it rented out to Italian and French students who upon the announcement of COVID, their governments had them called home immediately. My rooms emptied overnight. Now that stung, That stung because it was maybe 10 or 11 weeks before we could fill them . We filled them with emergency hospital staff. But yes, slight tangent there! HMOs are fantastic cash flow, they absolutely are, but you do need a chunkier deposit to get involved in that. In Belfast we’re talking upwards of maybe £60k, the one that we’ve just bought £126 , 000 deposit… And a lot more time I imagine to maintain them and with people moving in and out… But Greg I refuse to have anything to do with that. That’s not my forte . Again, this is something that people have to understand getting into property. If you’re going to self-manage , you are giving yourself another job. You just are.I understand maybe you want to get the first one or two, three, maybe under your belt. It’s a great learning experience. I kept (this sounds weird) but I kept management of a few of our buy-to-lets solely to show my son the ropes. Now he’s six <laugh>. This sounds really hardcore! But I wanted him to understand what we do as a business. I wanted him to understand the types of properties that we make into homes. I also wanted him to understand how to deal with tenants, how to deal with people, how to deal with contractors. Like he can talk to a surveyor all day long. He’s good, he’s good!
Greg Wilkes: 33:52
And he can now earn his pocket money . <laugh> .
Danielle Bell: 33:55
That’s exactly it . I’m very, very passionate (and I get this is a side tangent) but I’m very passionate about teaching him that we work to have the things that we have. That’s very important to me. So we kept management of a few of them just so that I can take him all around and show him the ropes. Anything thereafter , Greg, you give it to the specialists, right? You are an investor. You have to know your role. You are an investor, you are maintaining the asset. You’re looking for the next asset. You’re managing the finance. I don’t need a tenant ringing me at six o’clock on Sunday to tell me the boiler is broke . I don’t need that. So, very important that you understand what you’re getting yourself into.
Greg Wilkes: 34:39
That’s why it comes back to what you said before, start with that plan and work out why you’re doing this in the first place and what you’re trying to get out of it. There’s a few options there and I know there’s there’s more than that. Obviously you got things like Airbnb and all sorts of things that people can do. Then we get more complex things like by getting involved in land deals, and then you get even bigger than that, land promotion on farms and it just goes on and on, doesn’t it? But like you say , you’ve got to pick something and start there.
Danielle Bell: 35:09
Pick one. I think from a builder’s perspective, I think flips is a fantastic strategy to be able to go down. Again, coming back to those core qualities that a builder has, the ability to spot undervalued properties, the ability to spot how they can add value, the ability to be able to manage and maintain the trades, to be able to bring things in at cost or slightly lower. The ability to be able to spot out the opportunity. You will be paid well and handsomely by an investor for that skillset alone. From a builder’s perspective, I think flips would be a great initial strategy. There are people out there -me! I’m raising both hands here , who will happily part with cash to see those deals go through.
Greg Wilkes: 35:58
Yes, that’s awesome. Brilliant. What’s your thoughts on (well, I know no one can predict this, even the economist of the world) but at the moment we’re in an unusual type economy because there’s talk of recession. But to be honest, in the building trade, we’ve never known it so busy, everyone is absolutely flat out . Property prices, in the UK it seems to have flatlined a bit, but does it really ever seem to go down? It seems to keep going one way. On the cautious side, I guess, what’s your thoughts on what people should be doing in the economy? Should they be staying out of it at the moment or just go all in? What do you think, what advice would you give?
Danielle Bell: 36:39
I can tell you Greg, certainly in the Belfast market, I’m not seeing a flat line . I’m just not. I’m very thankful that I get a lot of my deals off market from agents before they go on the open market. I’m very rarely ever caught in a bidding scenario. In terms of should be people waiting: No. Don’t wait, do not wait. You will kick yourself if you say , “I’m just going to wait until the market goes up .” They told us last year we were going to do a crazy recession and they said the year before that it’s all going to implode. If you were that person then two years ago who said, “I’m going to wait” you’ve really screwed yourself, because the prices have just continued to rise. My advice is get into property, it’s not a case of timing the market, it’s time in it. For me, I’m massive on contingency, and again, this is a learning curve and I’ve been burned more times than I’d like to admit by not factoring in an appropriate contingency. If the **** hits the fan , what do I need to have here to ensure that it’s not lights out for me?
Greg Wilkes: 37:51
Yes.
Danielle Bell: 37:52
So no, I don’t see us falling off the edge of the cliff in terms of house prices anytime soon, Greg. I really don’t. I think, so long as the demand for property outstrips the supply, we are continuously going to see this incremental growth. The craziness of prices in some of the areas of Belfast is just absolutely insane. Properties that we were previously buying for maybe 90,000 pounds pre covid , we’re looking at £160k now just to get your foot over the door. Madness.
Greg Wilkes: 38:29
Yes it is madness. What is funny, it’s a global thing. I’m from London and see the prices there , I can keep a firm eye on what’s going on there. It’s always going up. And now over in Sydney, I’m just amazed that it follows exactly the same trajectory. It’s constantly only going one way. Certainly, like you say, you need to be in the market, otherwise you’re going to be left behind, and it’s going to get harder.
Danielle Bell: 38:52
You’ll kick yourself because it’s a lot of scaremongering when we watch the news. I try not to pay too much attention, if I’m honest , Greg. I think that you make your own economy and so I’m just blinkers on. If I educate myself, if I seek out opinion, it’s all in the analysis, it’s all in due diligence and the numbers don’t lie. As an ex financial analyst, I am all about the numbers . Show me the numbers, show me the comparable, show me the statistics, and I make my decisions based off measured metrics and not off what somebody on the Daily Mail has said armageddon’s around the corner next week .
Greg Wilkes: 39:35
Yes, I think thats wise. There’s been such great tips and value that you’ve provided today, Danielle, I really appreciate you running through all of that. Some that are listening to this will be thinking, “Right, I really want to get started now and get going with this” but they might want a bit of extra help. How would people get in contact with you, Danielle, and any help that you might be able to offer?
Danielle Bell: 39:54
Oh , that’s awesome, Greg. I am pretty active on Facebook and so you can check me out on Facebook, Danielle Bell. We also have a free Facebook community ‘Property Sources Made Simple.’ If you search for that in the search bar on Facebook, jump in the free community, there’s loads of free trainings in there. One of the specific trainings that we have, Greg, that may be useful to your audience is, ‘The Seven Steps to Raise an Investor of Finance.’ Builders being builders are not very shy at finding the deals they’ve got them. But sometimes it’s finding that finance, networking with these investors, bringing people on board to finance those deals. We have loads of free trainings, PDFs, a video guide, they might find it useful.
Greg Wilkes: 40:36
That’s brilliant and really generous, Danielle . I’ll put all those links in the show notes afterwards for everyone. But Danielle , can I just say thank you so much , you’ve been a great guest today and provided so much value, so really appreciate it .
Danielle Bell: 40:48
Thank you so much, Greg . Loved to be here.
